Mastiffen's '78 Starfire V6 Turbo

[Mastiffen]

Here's how I did the valve springs:



And what the top looks like with the valve springs done (not so different, but still looks rather good to me):



Today I finally managed to get the crank bolt out. I made a stop from an old metal table leg and a metal plate with holes in it. Took an hour to get it ready (with a lot of filing to get the bolt holes in the correct places in the metal plate):



And with this three feet long cheater bar it took me 20 seconds to get the bolt out:



So now the front of the engine looks like this:



And the inside the front/oil pump part:



It all looks very good to me. The red on the timing sprocket is some kind of paint, not rust. And the black stuff I have no idea what is, but it's a part of the metal. I can look inside the engine through the slits on each side of the bottom timing sprocket, and it looks 100 % new. Which to my very unqualified mind seems good! Next step will be to do the mods for better oil flow.

[monza75tc]

It's looking better all the time. Would rather have the turbo 231 engine rather than my 196, I have heard they are a much solider engine.

Dick

[Len]

Hello
I had not til lnow realized you going efi turbo good on you and for the tool lot of work but worth the look might want to go to a double roller and degree it . them blue timming gears are not the best.
Len

[HI WINDING MONZA]

Hello
I had not til lnow realized you going efi turbo good on you and for the tool lot of work but worth the look might want to go to a double roller and degree it . them blue timming gears are not the best.
Len

Agree, or at least change the cam gear for an all metal one because those nylon teeth will end up in your oil pan sooner or later..............

Doug in Az

[Mastiffen]

Yes, thanks. I'm going to change the timing set, I have been told elsewhere as well that I should not trust 20 year old brittle plastic.

But if you by EFI mean electronic fuel injection, that's not what I'm going to do. It will be a carb with no electronics what so ever. Pure mechanical power.

[Mastiffen]

I have ordered a timing kit, this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1977-87-181-196-231-252-V6-BUICK-NEW-TIMING-CHAIN-SET-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem335fb3ad2aQQitemZ220648942890QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories. And Just a Six?? on the TurboBuicks.com forum had a few extra tensioners, so he was very kind and said he'll send me one of them. Then that should be taken care of. Of course it means I can't start putting it together again until this arrives in a week or two but it's not like I don't have anything else I should do...

[starfire383]

Those V6s have some weirdness going on with tensioners and non-GM timing chain sets. If you mismatch it'll eat the tensioner. Maybe double roller sets omit the tensioner??? You're probably already aware of it.

Don't worry about ring seal on a brand new engine, the hiss test tells you a lot more about an old engine.

Neat car you're putting together. I've always wondered what those combos would do with a modern efficient turbo in place of the stocker, even if setup so total boost pressure was the same. That can be your next step away from legal...claiming the stock turbo broke, was discontinued/unavailable, and the new one is a direct replacement

[Mastiffen]

I found a kit from eBay that was given the green light from the guys on the TurboBuicks board, so I hope that will work. And a tensioner from Just a Six?? on the board. I'm guessing the name is because he surprises people who thinks it has to be a powerful V8 in there...

And I don't think my wife would OK anything more at the moment that's not necessary! But some day, when the kitchen remodelling is done...

[Mastiffen]

Yesterday I got the engine over on an engine stand, which makes it a lot easier to work with. Of course I messed up quite fast... twice. I first tried to turn the engine on the stand, and that went very well. Excelt for that I had forgotten that since the rocker system is removed the push rods were loose. I hadn't removed those. So some of them fell to the floor. Mostly on a carpet, and from max two feet height. I don't think that would damage them, but I'm going to put them on a flat surface and roll them to see if they are bent.

This morning, with the rods all taken out, I was going to turn the engine again to see the bottom and cylinders. Yeah, sure... Second mistake. I forgot about the lifters. Two of them came loose inside. But I think that was the Turbo god's way of telling me I should just get started on what I had been dreading...removing the head on that side (yes, by some freak accident I turned the engine the correct way!). Not that it matters, of course it's enough to remove the intake, but on this engine that's a lot more work than removing the cylinder head...

And why should I remove the head? Well, to change the piston rings on the front piston on that side (passenger side). That had a lot more air leak than the other cylinders when I did the valve springs. I had my neighbour listen to it, and he said that it was too much air leakage to use like it was. I was going to try with some more special oil to get it loose, but something tells me I would only be wasting my time on that.

Now the question is (and I have asked it on the Buick Turbo Forum if I should change all those piston rings, if there's some new kind of rings for the turbo engines that have arrived since 1983 and work better or have a longer life. We'll see...I'm afraid I know the answer! Already I'm down a set of head gaskets, and the next step will probably be piston rings. Still I'm hoping for December. I have spoken to the guy who's doing the actual engine swap, and he will be ready when I am.

[Mastiffen]

OK the head is off. And I see what's happening here. Something wet has been in that one cylinder. The head above it has a bit of rust, the others do not. That may even have happened in the year the engine has been here, I don't know. I did remove the rocker covers and maybe somebody's been careless with water in the area. They shouldn't in a garage, but you never know. I just hope that it isn't so bad that I need to get the cylinder worked on .







It looks bad, but when I let my fingers rub over it it's a ridge that's only a fraction of a millimeter high. I hope this can be solved with honing.

[Mastiffen]

Here's the driver's side:

[Mastiffen]

Looks from comments on the Buick Turbo site like a honing job, not a boring job. Which is good, because the last alternative would be really boring! Yeah, that was son of bad joke, but I had to... At least I laughed! Not very loud, but that's something that will come the day the honing job is done and I can see that it worked out.

[HI WINDING MONZA]

Dont know how water could of got in there, was the engine wrapped in plastic?( condensation?) Humidty maybe? Where is the motor from ? ( state?)

Well ,even though you have to go to all this trouble, better to check/do it now than later.............

A light honing will clean it up just fine ( using a drill powered one should be fine) Looks like a rust ridge only, not a metal one.

Keep going , you are doing fine..........................

Doug in Az

[Mastiffen]

Thanks, Doug! The big dogs seem to agree on this (you and Just a Six?? on the Buick forum). Pretty sure it is a small rust ridge. But it seems like I'll pull all the pistons, check the rings and bearings and perhaps change them. Anyway this kind of engine work is actually a bit of fun! I guess it's because I'm working on a clean engine on a stand and don't have to crawl around under a dirty car on an engine full of dirt and old oil...

[Mastiffen]

Am I breaking any written or unwritten rules when I'm proud that I got the piston out without any problems by using methods read on the web and in the manual? I used the two longest head bolts and strung wire between them to stop the piston from falling down when I carefully knocked it out using a sawed off broomstick. And I put the parts in separate, marked plastic bags, and I marked the rod retainer (if that's the correct word for the part that is on the opposite side of the crank) with an arrow pointing towards the middle of the engine to make sure I would put it back in the correct way.

So, down to business: I almost had a heart attack when I took off the oil pan, I thought the crank was rusty! Turned out that it was some brown paint...



I got the piston out, and it looks like the pictures below, from all four angles.









Also I photographed (cell phone photos, so they're not that good), the bearing as well. I do see those stripes, but I can't feel them. I think they may be the result of me turning the engine over a few times manually, but I'm not sure: