79 Monza 2+2 Spyder Project

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79 Monza 2+2 Spyder Project

Postby zeroluck » Thu May 09, 2013 4:54 pm

Alright, got the thing out in daylight. I figured I'd post a crapload of pictures and ask some more questions. See my notes and questions at the bottom of the post.

(original post with my initial questions: http://forums.h-body.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39586)

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Here's what I'm thinking. I'm seeing A LOT of rust I don't remember. How much body work do you guys think I have here? I got it running yesterday pouring gas in the carb. So for Body, it looks like I need work behind each wheel well, 4 corners of the drop down floor pan area right under the rear seat floorboards and the front of the front seat mounts are rusting through (not awful yet). Everything else looks like cleaning and paint and some detailing will be good enough. I need to get the locks recored or get keys made because I can't open the hatchback from the outside. The hatchback needs new gas shock things to keep it up.

The interior is in relatively good shape, but the sunroof leaks badly. I'm going to try some silicone to moisturize the rubber and see if that helps.

Mechanically, the worst is that it overheats. There is no liquid in the hose going from the radiator to the engine which makes me suspect the heads are cracked, but I'm going to tear into that later this week. The brakes need some unknown amount of work (it stops slowly, but I can tell not all 4 brakes are working, possibly brake lines), and the gas tank is rusty inside and leaky. Not sure what to do about this because I'm pretty sure nobody makes a gas tank for this car anymore. I guess I could try some of that pour in sealer stuff, not really sure yet. The PO claimed the fuel pump in the gas tank was broken, and added an inline pump in the engine compartment. It was working at the time. When I last had the car running (6 years ago), it was leaking transmission fluid, but I checked the fluid and the it's at the same level as 6 years ago, so maybe the tranny is fine.

Right now what I'm trying to decide is what the hell to do with this thing. I'm in about $575 including car, storing, towing, gas to get there, and a battery. I don't have a welder, nor have I ever welded anything in my life. I'm not against buying a welder and welding the crap out of this thing and painting it myself. If I make it pretty I sort of want to make it run fast too. The other half of me is telling me to rip open the 305, get it running right, drive it till it dies, then part it out to you guys. Most of that is because of the rust I'm finding everywhere and the awesome condition of the interior.

What does the H-Body community think I should do? I should mention I am mechanically inclined, have a college degree and I do have the money to do this right. My indecision comes from the idea that I know I could spend the same money on something else/more desirable/in better condition and be better for it.
Last edited by zeroluck on Fri May 10, 2013 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 79 Monza 2+2 Spyder Day 1: Initial Condition

Postby 80 MONZTA » Thu May 09, 2013 7:55 pm

That interior is the exact same color scheme and materials as mine was. Wish I had the delay wipers though, if you do decide to part it out, I want those..
You do have a lot of work ahead of you, and you will need a welder unless you have buckets of money to pay someone else to do it. The bodywork, while it will need to be done, something more important is the suspension mounting points. If it is all rusted away, you are in for more work, but it can be saved. The orange circle that I added to your pic below is of concern to me, looks badly rusted there, but hard to tell from a pic. If the fuel tank needs replacing, the only way is to find a good used one. You are right that you could spend the same on something else more desirable by other people, but it may cost more to start out. But if the Monza is done to high level of quality, I think the Monza will receive more interest than those more desirable cars that everyone else has.
rear suspension.jpg
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Re: 79 Monza 2+2 Spyder Day 1: Initial Condition

Postby NVEGAR8D » Thu May 09, 2013 11:07 pm

hi,
Yours isn't much worse than my vega was when i bought it . when i tore the interior out i could see better what i needed to do. i bought a lincoln 140 and got started learning how to weld. only prior experience was arc welding ( not too well) to make a compressor and band saw.anyway i decided to upgrade to a 180 220v because of futer frame welding and more power(hohoho). welding is getting a lot easier and fun when getting better results.I say go for it and enjoy the experiences. your already one step ahead in that the car is already an 8.
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Re: 79 Monza 2+2 Spyder Day 1: Initial Condition

Postby zeroluck » Fri May 10, 2013 1:00 am

Montza, That was a source of my worry as well. I'm going to get the car up on jackstands (if I can find solid spots to jack up... maybe I'll use the rear axle). So I can get a real good look at the suspension mount points. I'll take pictures of what's going on under there.

NVEGAR8D, These pictures might be a little misleading. I basically took pictures of the worst of the car. If it's not in the pictures it's in good shape. For instance the underbody does have some rust near the edges, but it's solid when you go a half inch in any direction all the way to the other side. What kind of welder should I buy to get the best results/most forgiving for a beginner? I would like to stay with 110, because I don't have any 220 wired. If 220 is the answer, I can wire it in myself but I'd rather not. Obviously I need to do some research and practice before I start grinding and welding on the car itself.
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Re: 79 Monza 2+2 Spyder Day 1: Initial Condition

Postby T-FATTY » Fri May 10, 2013 2:36 am

Not being a downer but that car needs a lot to get it to zero [solid] before you start resto/rodding. I personally would pay more for a rust free or close to it car and go from there. That being said you might be one of those guys that can do anything and enjoy a challenge. You have to ask your self a couple of questions,1- do i go ahead and spend who knows how much money/time on this one. 2- Spend probabaly more money and less time on a solid one.

It always comes down to two things, how much money and time do you want to spend. Best of luck either way.
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Re: 79 Monza 2+2 Spyder Day 1: Initial Condition

Postby zeroluck » Fri May 10, 2013 10:33 am

Update:

Today I primed the fuel line, changed the fuel filter and got it running! It looks like the car held transmission fluid to the right level for the last 6 years and it's shifting great when we took it for a test drive. I was also under the remembrance that it was overheating due to a possible cracked head, but after I filled the resorvoir (the rad was full of antifreeze, just reservoir empty) the rad hoses became solid to the touch while running (full of fluid unlike before) and flowed, and it never went past halfway on the temp gauge. We just drove it up and down a few alleys. It's idling at around 900-1000rpms. I can hear a noise in the lower RPM's when it's cold, but it's too early to say if it will go away when hot. It sounds sort of like a knock, but I think the air filter lid might not be tightened on there right and that might just be slapping around. It goes away at higher RPMS (smoother, no noise). I'll check that when it's light outside tomorrow after work.

Another thing I noticed other than the brakes being pretty crappy (have to figure that out too) is some crazy grinding noises when the wheels are turned to the right pretty far. I'm not sure what it's hitting or what the sound is yet. It might be some of my rusted suspension mounts.
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Re: 79 Monza 2+2 Spyder Project

Postby cjbiagi » Fri May 10, 2013 3:56 pm

I don't mean to dampen your enthusiasm but remember that these are unibody cars that get their strength from the chassis structure. It appears that this could be an issue with this car from both a performance and safety issue. I would take my time and look very seriously into the condition of the chassis and determine if it's something you can fix or not. Worst case is you could look for another car and use this as a parts cars. Severe rust on a unibody car can be overwhelming since you need to repair it for strength, not just looks. It takes a lot of know-how to properly repair the substructure.
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Re: 79 Monza 2+2 Spyder Project

Postby zeroluck » Fri May 10, 2013 5:05 pm

cjbiagi wrote:I don't mean to dampen your enthusiasm but remember that these are unibody cars that get their strength from the chassis structure. It appears that this could be an issue with this car from both a performance and safety issue. I would take my time and look very seriously into the condition of the chassis and determine if it's something you can fix or not. Worst case is you could look for another car and use this as a parts cars. Severe rust on a unibody car can be overwhelming since you need to repair it for strength, not just looks. It takes a lot of know-how to properly repair the substructure.


Well, the reason I'm here is not beacuse I went out seeking to restore a chevy monza... I just happened upon it. At this point I plan on investigating the rust further before doing much of anything else. If I can't fix this, I'm definitely not hunting around the country for another H-Body. I like this car, but it's not my first choice.

I'm gonna poke around with a hammer and see what the frame part of the unibody looks like. I'll take some pictures and get some opinions. Like I said earlier, I'm not against parting it out.

You say it requires a lot of know-how to repair the substructure. Is this not something I can learn? I did go to engineering school if that helps any. I like the idea of getting into welding and fabricating and I'm going to build a nice shop environment some time.
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Re: 79 Monza 2+2 Spyder Project

Postby cjbiagi » Fri May 10, 2013 6:11 pm

I don't mean to imply that it can't be fixed, just don't throw a lot of money into some thing that may not be able to be finished. Doing body work is one thing, rebuilding a unibody for structural integrity is something else. You are going about it the correct way by getting opinions from others, and I of course have no idea of what your background or abilities are. I just don't want to see someone bite off more than they can chew. Any car needs a strong foundation to build upon so that's what needs to be evaluated before jumping into it.
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Re: 79 Monza 2+2 Spyder Project

Postby 76wagon » Sat May 11, 2013 12:56 pm

If you decide to rebuild the rotted suspension points you might want to consider the approach I used. Basically uses the subframe connector for the rear control arm mounting point. Haven't gotten the car back on the ground yet but it should stiffen it up a whole lot.

As far as know-how goes, I've found the most important part is just to be willing to do the work and using common sense- basically build it at least as strong as the original structure, best to overbuild it and be on the safe side. My theory is if I add too much weight I'll just have to make more power 8)

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=38587

I can't take credit for the idea though, 'borrowed' it from NixvegaGT...

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2357894/1 ... ga/page-8/

Good luck with the Monza. Remeber worst case scenario you still have a 350 to bolt into something else...

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Re: 79 Monza 2+2 Spyder Project

Postby zeroluck » Mon May 13, 2013 12:33 am

76wagon wrote:If you decide to rebuild the rotted suspension points you might want to consider the approach I used. Basically uses the subframe connector for the rear control arm mounting point. Haven't gotten the car back on the ground yet but it should stiffen it up a whole lot.

As far as know-how goes, I've found the most important part is just to be willing to do the work and using common sense- basically build it at least as strong as the original structure, best to overbuild it and be on the safe side. My theory is if I add too much weight I'll just have to make more power 8)

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=38587

I can't take credit for the idea though, 'borrowed' it from NixvegaGT...

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2357894/1 ... ga/page-8/

Good luck with the Monza. Remeber worst case scenario you still have a 350 to bolt into something else...

Phill


That is an excellent job so far. It looks extremely solid. Right now I am torn on whether to dive in headfirst or part it out. I've already gotten PMs for parts enough to cover everything I have in the car except the new battery.

I'm going to get this thing jacked up high on a lift (not sure where yet) and get some real pictures up here to see how bad it REALLY is. If I do need to do subframe reinforcement, I will have a lot of questions for you. Looks like you've gotten this done in several months, so it definitely seems achievable for me. Also, I believe this car has a 305 in it not a 350, but I could be wrong. It sure doesn't feel like a 350, but it is pretty badly in need of a tuneup. I'm also going to do a compression test this week as part of my decision whether to part out or rebuild.
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Re: 79 Monza 2+2 Spyder Project

Postby zeroluck » Mon May 13, 2013 8:35 pm

This is what it looks like cleaned up:

Image
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Re: 79 Monza 2+2 Spyder Project

Postby zeroluck » Fri May 17, 2013 8:51 am

I jacked up the front end the other day and discovered that the engine mounts are bad. The crank pulley is almost resting on the front sway bar and it scrapes while running occasionally.

Looking at the rear frame near the suspension mount points, it actually looks pretty solid mostly surface rust with a bit of flaking.

Does anyone have suggestions for engine mounts for these? Do I replace the whole mount or just the rubber piece that is squashed?
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Re: 79 Monza 2+2 Spyder Project

Postby sportriderok » Fri May 17, 2013 9:29 am

You might want to check out v8monza.com. Bob Gumm has new perches and mounts that let you use a standard rubber mount instead of the hard to find Monza ones. Bob's service is great, and he has a good selection of parts for our cars.
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