HEI distrib with stock coil?

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HEI distrib with stock coil?

Postby CK88 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:15 am

Hey guys, I picked up a 72 GT Wagon last week and I'm having a couple issues with it. It was driving fine until Monday when I went to go to work. Going down the road just fine and came to a stop sign. Went to pull away from the stop and the motor died. Worked and worked and worked to get it going again and finally it started back up. I limped it off to the side of the road and it died again. My initial thought was that it wasn't getting fuel. It has a Holley 2300 2bbl. I opened the hood a manually pumped fuel into the carb. Upon pushing the throttle body open I saw and heard fuel entering the carb. It wasn't a fuel problem. Still no start. Next guess was to go to plugs/wires/spark. That's when I noticed the HEI. I don't know how I missed it before. It has an external coil on it, and a monster cap. My thought now is that the coil might be bad. I pulled all the plugs and put new ones in it, still no start, pulled the wires and changed them, no start.

My question is, I have a brand new, never installed, stock style ignition coil. Is it possible to use this coil with the HEI distributor, or will it not supply enough power to the system? I just wanted to try it out to see before I went and bought a new HEI coil at $75+. The HEI coil has 4 prongs on top of it, 2 pos and 2 neg. One pos and one neg comes off the distributor, and the others come out of the wiring harness. Stock style coil only has 2 prongs, one pos and one neg. If it's possible to use this distrib, could I just sandwich the two sets and connect to the single like terminal (+ or -) on the coil?

Been lurking a long time and finally decided its time to ask the experts. Thanks for your help.

CK
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Re: HEI distrib with stock coil?

Postby spencerforhire » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:24 am

The OEM canister coil should work ok; at least enough to find out why your car won't run. You have the wiring figured out at least. I have a question; are you sure the cam belt didn't jump/break? Before you start swapping parts, you should check for spark; just pull out at least one plug, put the wire back on it and lay it somewhere on the motor where it's touching bare metal. When you crank it over you should see a bright blue spark.
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Re: HEI distrib with stock coil?

Postby CK88 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:03 am

That was actually my next question... I am going to pull #1 out tonight when I get home and make sure it's sparking at all. Wasn't sure if that would cause more problems on these old 140's though. Thanks for confirming that for me. I'm positive I didn't break the belt. That was the first thing I checked on the side of the road, and I wouldn't think it would have started back up at all if I had. Got it started one time, enough to limp it off to the side of the road. Only other thing I could think of, besides spark, was that maybe the timing belt jumped a tooth and threw it off. I pulled on the belt and it feels nice and tight, but I'll check timing marks on it too and make sure it didn't. I'll throw that other coil on tonight and see what I come up with. Thanks for the reply and help spence.
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Re: HEI distrib with stock coil?

Postby Kenova » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:36 am

CK88 wrote:Hey guys, I picked up a 72 GT Wagon last week ........ That's when I noticed the HEI. I don't know how I missed it before. It has an external coil on it, and a monster cap. My thought now is that the coil might be bad.
CK


Apparently someone has swapped an HEI in to replace the old points type distributor. A smart move if done right.
To the best of my (limited) knowledge all HEIs require a full 12 volts while all points distributors were wired with a resistor wire to reduce voltage. Check the power supply wire for the distributor. The resistor wire should have been swapped out for a standard wire.
There is also the possibility that the control module inside the HEI is toast. It wouldn't be the first one to fry it's self.

Ken
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Re: HEI distrib with stock coil?

Postby cjbiagi » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:52 pm

One of the big advantages of a HEI is that it is a self contained unit with the integral coil. If set up correctly it is a great distributor. It does indeed require a full 12v so if you replace a earlier distributor you do need to run a new wire as mentioned.
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Re: HEI distrib with stock coil?

Postby cjbiagi » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:52 pm

One of the big advantages of a HEI is that it is a self contained unit with the integral coil. If set up correctly it is a great distributor. It does indeed require a full 12v so if you replace a earlier distributor you do need to run a new wire as mentioned.
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Re: HEI distrib with stock coil?

Postby CK88 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:30 pm

And that was my initial thought also... I had understood that HEI's were all self contained units. HOWEVER, this one very clearly has some sort of a coil that is wired into the distributor, and into the wiring harness. It has 2 wires(one pos and one neg) wired into the distributor, right underneath the cap, and then has 2 wires (one pos and one neg) that is wired into the wiring harness. I assumed that this was an ignition coil, but it didn't have any markings on it at all. This coil has one plug type wire that goes to the center of the dizzy cap, which is why I assumed it was an ignition coil also. Like I said, just picked up the car a week ago, so I'm still trying to figure out what all was done to it, but this seems pretty obvious. I guess I could try hooking up the two wires from the distributor to the ones from the wiring harness and seeing if I get a spark. I don't know why they would have had an additional aftermarket coil in addition to the HEI... I'll try and take some pics of what I'm looking at and let you guys see it. I know this isn't easy to advise on when you can't see what I'm talking about. I'll pull the distributor apart tonight and see if the coil is inside it. Not familiar with HEI's too much, is the coil going to be obvious once I pull the cap off? Should just be an extra module inside it, right? Thanks again guys. you all rock!
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Re: HEI distrib with stock coil?

Postby bugdewde » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:34 pm

Vega HEI has external coil.... at least mine does. It's mounted on the side of the head and just in front of the dizzy... under the carb heater hose.

Engine distributor AS BOUGHT.jpg
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Re: HEI distrib with stock coil?

Postby CK88 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:58 pm

YUP! Thanks bug. That's exactly what mine is. It's in a square housing and bolted to the head. Do you know what the output is on that coil? Mine doesn't have any markings at all on it, and I think it needs replacing. Going to at least try it before I tackle the dizzy.
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Re: HEI distrib with stock coil?

Postby bugdewde » Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:04 pm

Sorry.... no data on the coil. It was swapped in by the previous owner. I can't even test it as I don't even have a battery for it.......
Pointy screw on the side of the battery tray area gouged a hole in my battery causing lots of metal to rot away after I left the battery hold down off for a short while. Do NOT let your battery move around.

battery tray.JPG
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Re: HEI distrib with stock coil?

Postby CK88 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:12 pm

OHHHH! That's not pretty! Sorry to hear that man. Yeah, mine was all done by previous owner also. I'm glad you said that, actually, I was just noticing some bad stuff happening on the inside of the compartment around the battery. I'll keep an eye on it and make some repairs.
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Re: HEI distrib with stock coil?

Postby CK88 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:12 pm

OHHHH! That's not pretty! Sorry to hear that man. Yeah, mine was all done by previous owner also. I'm glad you said that, actually, I was just noticing some bad stuff happening on the inside of the compartment around the battery. I'll keep an eye on it and make some repairs.
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Re: HEI distrib with stock coil?

Postby kgroombr » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:37 pm

That battery tray area is better than most Vegas I have seen. Nothing metal and welding can't fix.

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Re: HEI distrib with stock coil?

Postby T-FATTY » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:41 pm

cjbiagi wrote:One of the big advantages of a HEI is that it is a self contained unit with the integral coil. If set up correctly it is a great distributor. It does indeed require a full 12v so if you replace a earlier distributor you do need to run a new wire as mentioned.


A new wire as straight from battery?
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Re: HEI distrib with stock coil?

Postby cjbiagi » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:55 pm

No, it should be a switched 12v. Only should have power with the ignition on. You can generally pick up a 12 volt switched feed from the fusebox.
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