Buick 215 V-8 Questions

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Buick 215 V-8 Questions

Postby cammerjeff » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:03 pm

Well I have the chance to get a running 1963 Olds 215 V-8, running with 88,000 miles, 2bbl, complete with exhaust manifolds, aircleaner, and all the accesory brackets for about $600.00. And it is within an hour drive of me. My questions are
1 - What transmission bolt pattern do they use? I think the early ones have an odd ball pattern
2 - Will the Buick 215 4 bbl intake manifolds work with the Olds heads?
3 - does the 63 engine us an Altenator? or Generator?
4 - Do these engines fit in the H-body without any special modificatios? Oil pan, Water Pump ect...?

I am considering putting this in my Astre Formula instead of the 383 SBC I was going to build, It would save me alot of work, like Subframe connectors, rear axle mods, I could reuse my BOP T-350 trans with shift kit. And I may get the car on the road by this spring.

Any thoughts?
Jeff R

1971 Catalina Freeway Enforcer
77 Astre Formula, some day soon powered by a 215 Buick V-8
1973 4-speed Lemans Safari STOCK!!!!! 1978 Catalina Safari
2006 Mallet Solstice, 6.0 LS2, 6-speed manual
2009 Solstice Coupe, 2.4, 5-speed Manual
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Re: Buick 215 V-8 Questions

Postby NixVegaGT » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:52 pm

They do have a different bolt pattern. If you can find a manual bellhousing that the 215 used you can bolt any GM style manual to it. You can also buy a new one from D&D Fabrications:

http://www.aluminumv8.com/

The Buick 215 4-barrel will fit just fine. They used an alternator and the only modification is the oil pan. You need to notch it to for the crossmember. The water pump that you use is from a Jeep I think? My 215 Vega used the stock radiator and everything.

It's not a superpower but it is WAY more torque than the original 4-cyl.
- Nic '73 Vega GT "DogBoxx" Batwing LS1
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2357894
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Re: Buick 215 V-8 Questions

Postby bugdewde » Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:23 pm

Nic hit it on the head.
I'm thinking the '61 and '62 engines were generators... not sure. I know the '63 is alternator.
The driver's exhaust manifold will barely touch the steering column shaft. See my pics in my signature ('72) of the tiny bit of grinding needed to clearance the shaft/manifold.
I think D&D might have a trans adapter so you could forego the complete Bellhousing with the TH350.
There are two water pumps.... short and long. Use the short one for stock rad clearance.
Motor perches are used on the frame plates to get to motor mounts... see my pics.
Starter might need a short nose cone.... again, D&D Fab.
Sometimes the oil filter hits the K-member. Use a relocation kit.... again, D&D Fab.

It's pretty much a bolt-in with the right parts. Definitely check out D&D Fab in Almont, Michigan. www.aluminumv8.com

It is no powerhouse..... but the torque in great ... remember, the engine only weighs 20-30 lbs more than the stock 4 cylinder (but feels like a lower center of gravity without the 70 lb, iron head of the 2.3L :D ).
My car ran great with a 2.54 R&P. VERY PEPPY! And I got 27 mpg.
The only diffences are in head design between Buick(Hemi) and Olds (Wedge)..... the various power ratings come from the pistons making different compression ratios... most everything else is the same and will bolt right up (same for their Rover cousins).

$600....? Well, I have 3 of them and the most I've paid for one was $250.
Dwight

'72 Vega GT Kammback, 215 V8
'73 Vega Wagon - Currently in Limbo....
My rides: http://www.cardomain.com/id/bugdewde
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Re: Buick 215 V-8 Questions

Postby cammerjeff » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:46 am

Thanks for the replies!!!! I will definatly check out the pic's of your car, and have already spoke briefly to D & D. And they pretty much confirmed what you said about the price, they said $200 max for a core. As for weight, I think it would actually be lighter than the 2.5 Iron Duke in the car now. My 77 is probebly heavier than your 71 but does have a 3.08 gear. So the 63 is a plus for the Altinator & mounting bracket.
But parts I would need are

Trans adaptor plate, possibly short water pump & pulley, possibly short nose for starter.

Would the Buick V-6 Frame plates & motor mounts work?

And did you have to modify your oil pan to fit?

For my particular aplication the Olds version is a plus, I like to go racing with the Pontiac crowd at Norwalk Ohio every Aug. And I get alot of grief about the Buick V-6 in my wagon, the Olds version was the style that they put in a few 61-62 Pontiac Tempests, and I can always say it came from one of those!!!

Thanks again.
Jeff R

1971 Catalina Freeway Enforcer
77 Astre Formula, some day soon powered by a 215 Buick V-8
1973 4-speed Lemans Safari STOCK!!!!! 1978 Catalina Safari
2006 Mallet Solstice, 6.0 LS2, 6-speed manual
2009 Solstice Coupe, 2.4, 5-speed Manual
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Re: Buick 215 V-8 Questions

Postby bugdewde » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:15 pm

Yes, oil pan has to be modified. Within the article titled Vega V8 Swap of this link, there are pics of the oil pan mods, bolt-on motor perches (not mounts) and other specific things. Very good reading on this site (not just the Vega V8 Swap article): http://lotus.www.50megs.com/V8articles.htm

This thread shows some pics of my car when I first got it. I did not install the engine, it was in the car when I got it (had reversed rocker shafts that wouldn't oil correctly). viewtopic.php?f=2&t=345
It shows my steering shaft/manifold clearance (very slight grinding needed), oil pan in car and radiator/fan clearance.
There's also some more links in that thread that I added for 215 stuff. Check out the Olds/442 link.... you'll like it.... it talks about the factory TURBO Olds 215 that was the 2nd GM engine to produce the magical 1 HP per cubic inch (second to the fuelie 283).

I had planned on badging a 215 with Pontiac decals to put in the '72 project that I was converting into a '73 Astre.
Dwight

'72 Vega GT Kammback, 215 V8
'73 Vega Wagon - Currently in Limbo....
My rides: http://www.cardomain.com/id/bugdewde
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Re: Buick 215 V-8 Questions

Postby res0o7eb » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:34 pm

Eh, that lotus site is atrocious!

Will a TH400 Transmission out of a 65 Buick Riviera with a Nailhead bolt to the 215 block?
The mounting pattern sure looks similar.
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Re: Buick 215 V-8 Questions

Postby bugdewde » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:00 pm

I dug out the 215 and a camera to get some shots of the 215 on the engine stand. Been sitting on it for about 3 years. :evil:

Here's a shot of the motor mounts.... I don't know what they are , they were on the car when I got it.
Motor Mount Close up.JPG


Here's the mount with the motor perch (comes from D&D Fab or could be fabbed pretty easily):
Motor Mount and Perch.JPG


Here's the oil pan modification:
Oil Pan front.JPG

Comparison:
Oil Pan Comparison Close.JPG

Oil Pan Comparison.JPG


Starter next.............
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Dwight

'72 Vega GT Kammback, 215 V8
'73 Vega Wagon - Currently in Limbo....
My rides: http://www.cardomain.com/id/bugdewde
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Re: Buick 215 V-8 Questions

Postby bugdewde » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:10 pm

Here's a shot of the 215 starters. Notice the difference of the position of the bendix teeth in comparison with a stock 215 starter
Stock 215 on Left ...................................................... Vega 215 on Right
Starter comparison Bendix teeth.JPG


Notice the clocking difference of the starter. This re-arrangeing of the starter bolt locations moves the starter in a way that the solenoid clears the Vega passenger frame rail. I highlighted the distance of the bolt holes in reference to the solenoild bolt holes to show how much it is clocked.
Starter comparison CLOCKING.JPG
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Dwight

'72 Vega GT Kammback, 215 V8
'73 Vega Wagon - Currently in Limbo....
My rides: http://www.cardomain.com/id/bugdewde
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Re: Buick 215 V-8 Questions

Postby NixVegaGT » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:32 pm

Those are 215 mounts. I bought some brand new from India. LOL! I'll try to dig out the info if you need it for any reason. Your pan is different from the pan that was in my car. It had the cut out for the cross member but also still had the stock notch at the back. Huh. Yours must be custom.

I'm currently building a stroker of the Rover version of this engine. It's a late Rover 4.0 block with a Buick 300 crank. It displaces almost 300 cid. I finally got my block back from the Machine shop. The block was being resleeved, and they were also cutting valve reliefs in the pistons.

I cc'd the piston heads and they are 5ccs. The chambers are 46ccs (really small for stock 300 heads. I think they've been decked a couple times. The pistons are from a Ford 255 and are 60 over for a bore of 3.74". They sit .012" above deck and all together it runs 11.4:1 CR. The cam is pretty hot and so my DCR is right around 8.5:1. It's right on the max for 92 octane. I'm pretty keyed up to get it together for the last time and for all. It should come together pretty quick now. Then it's off the the dyno. Fingers crossed.
- Nic '73 Vega GT "DogBoxx" Batwing LS1
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2357894
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Re: Buick 215 V-8 Questions

Postby bugdewde » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:42 pm

Bellhousing measurements in INCHES......... between each consectutive hole.
bellhousing.JPG



Bellhousing is supposed to be from D&D Fab....... a TransDapt bell. I do not know for sure, though.
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Last edited by bugdewde on Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dwight

'72 Vega GT Kammback, 215 V8
'73 Vega Wagon - Currently in Limbo....
My rides: http://www.cardomain.com/id/bugdewde
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Re: Buick 215 V-8 Questions

Postby bugdewde » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:49 pm

Yes, my oil pan was custom made long before I got the car. It has a temperature sender fabbed in the rear section that would have been notched like yours in the rear. I guess they wanted to increase the capacity in the rear from the loss at the front.
Dwight

'72 Vega GT Kammback, 215 V8
'73 Vega Wagon - Currently in Limbo....
My rides: http://www.cardomain.com/id/bugdewde
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Re: Buick 215 V-8 Questions

Postby bugdewde » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:55 pm

Driver's side engine perch mounted on the stock Vega frame plate ( I think it's a stock frame plate.... matches the ones in my parts car).
Image

Passesnger side engine perch. The rearmost bolt is a flush mounted allen bolt.... I assume to clear the starter.
Image
Dwight

'72 Vega GT Kammback, 215 V8
'73 Vega Wagon - Currently in Limbo....
My rides: http://www.cardomain.com/id/bugdewde
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Re: Buick 215 V-8 Questions

Postby 72 SS PNL » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:58 pm

those look like the stock vega motor mount pads , mine with the monza v6 mounts dont have that added plate to them , like those have

you guys are making me interested in this swap , LOL

maybe a coupe with a turbo's 215 in it
first and best car owned 72 GT(changed to SS) panel wagon

pictures of the car from 86 - http://www.myrideisme.com/Garage/06_IBM_GOAT/955
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Re: Buick 215 V-8 Questions

Postby cammerjeff » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:53 pm

Thanks for all the info and pic's, there are now a couple of olds 215's for sale near me, the original 63, and a 62 that is suposed to be rebuilt. I am planning on looking at them this sunday. I may have some more questions next week.

Also I see all the engines mounted in Vegas seem to be early 71-73 cars, As my car is a 77 originally with a 2.5 are the oil pan mods the same? I am not familure with the early cars with the 2.3.
Jeff R

1971 Catalina Freeway Enforcer
77 Astre Formula, some day soon powered by a 215 Buick V-8
1973 4-speed Lemans Safari STOCK!!!!! 1978 Catalina Safari
2006 Mallet Solstice, 6.0 LS2, 6-speed manual
2009 Solstice Coupe, 2.4, 5-speed Manual
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Re: Buick 215 V-8 Questions

Postby bugdewde » Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:46 am

Adding Jeff's info for v6 accessories fitment onto a 215 v8.... and other observations.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=47068&p=282193#p282193
Dwight

'72 Vega GT Kammback, 215 V8
'73 Vega Wagon - Currently in Limbo....
My rides: http://www.cardomain.com/id/bugdewde
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